Peaceful Islam

Thursday, March 11, 2010 -

Ah well, it was nice while it lasted. New User off AGAIN due to people being pains *sigh*....to join, e.mail Feckless Wench at morticiacemetaria@hotmail.com

Home

Current Posts

There Ought To Be A Law

Viewed: 645

Peaceful Islam

Turkish girl 'buried alive' in family garden
By Jonathan Head
BBC News, Istanbul

A Turkish teenager found dead in a hole next to her house was probably buried alive, a post-mortem examination has revealed.

Medine Memi, 16, was found in the hole in December. Large amounts of soil were in her lungs and stomach, according to a source who has seen the report.

Her father and grandfather have been arrested, but not charged.

So-called "honour killings" take place every year in Turkey despite government moves to stamp out the practice.

Two months after police found Medine's body buried in the garden of her family home, a team of doctors at a university in Malatya has completed the post-mortem examination.

According to a source who has seen their report, there was only minor bruising on her body, and no evidence of her being drugged.

Concrete covered

Her hands had been tied behind her back, and they discovered large amounts of soil in her lungs and stomach.

The autopsy has concluded that she was almost certainly buried alive.

The police went to her home after a neighbour reported that Medine had not been seen for a month.

They found her body in a hole, newly covered with concrete, next to the hen-house.

A local organisation that campaigns against honour killings said the victim, one of 10 children, had gone three times to the police to complain that she was being beaten, but she was sent back to her family each time.

A member of the organisation visited Medine's mother a few days after her body was found, but she was too distraught to give them much information.

Conservative community

Medine, who had never been to school, lived in Kahta, a town in the mainly Kurdish south-east of Turkey, where most honour killings have taken place.

The town is known for being very conservative and religious; it is a stronghold of the once powerful Naksibendi Islamic sect, which was banned by modern Turkey's founding father Ataturk in 1925 but has revived in recent years.

But while it is true that most such killings are carried out in conservative Muslim communities, the practice is linked more to the customs of this region of Turkey, than to religious belief.

When girls or women are deemed to have stained the family honour, by behaviour as innocent as simply talking to boys, there is strong peer pressure from the community on the male members of the family to restore their honour, say groups working on the issue in the south-east.

The only way allowed by their code is to kill the girl or woman - usually a young man is given the task after a family council meeting, and the method and location of the killing are discussed in detail.

Emotional state

Afterwards, the family will try to pretend she never existed.

The government has tried to curb the practice by changing the guidance given to judges.

In the case of honour killings they are no longer allowed to use mitigating factors like the accused's emotional state to reduce sentences.

But this has so far had a limited impact.

According the statistics from the prime minister's office, there were 16 honour killings in Medine's province of Adiyaman between 2003 and 2007.

NGOs say the official figures are almost certainly too low.

Last year a Turkish man was sentenced to life imprisonment in London for the murder of his 15-year-old daughter a decade earlier. Her body has never been found.

Replies

2/7/2010 4:31:30 AM From: whogo Praise Allah.


2/7/2010 4:33:15 AM From: LiquidSnake So what was her crime? Did her ankle accidentally show as she tripped on a rock?


2/7/2010 4:34:17 AM From: whogo She talked to boys.


2/7/2010 4:35:19 AM From: LiquidSnake Gosh, that whore! Stone her!


2/7/2010 4:36:05 AM From: LiquidSnake Burn her! She's a witch!


2/8/2010 4:41:16 AM From: PapaBryant Build a bridge out of her!


2/8/2010 4:44:03 AM From: PapaBryant Seriously, they can try to spin this all they want, this is religiously motivated. Calling it something regional doesn't explain the fact that it is only Muslims from those regions that engage in those practices. You don't hear about Christian or Buddhist honor killings (though occasionally you do hear about Hindu HK's from the Cult of Kali).


2/8/2010 5:43:27 AM From: BCAR Of course some idiot is going to come in and talk about some Christian atrocity from the middle ages to justify this.


2/8/2010 6:46:01 AM From: LiquidSnake For once, I whole heartedly agree with PB lol.


2/8/2010 6:56:32 AM From: MrsK Religious motivation is not the responsibility of the religion. Abortion clinic bombings and polygamy with underage girls is also "Religiously Motivated". No need to visit the history of the middle ages. As I've pointed out numerous times if you magnify all the murders and child molestation cases and crimes against women here in the USA with same furor as those in the Middle East I'm sure this country would look just as bad. It's all about the media attention it gets.


2/8/2010 7:00:07 AM From: MrsK I take it back... The U.S. would probably look worse. And since supposedly the people overseas are not civilized, what's our excuse?


2/8/2010 7:03:46 AM From: MrsK In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.1 That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.2 http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html


2/8/2010 7:04:18 AM From: MrsK Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over an intimate partner.3 According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year.4 Less than 20 percent of battered women sought medical treatment following an injury.5 http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html


2/8/2010 7:04:36 AM From: MrsK According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.6 Other estimates, such as those generated by the FBI, are much lower because they rely on data from law enforcement agencies. A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done and the personal nature of the incident.7 http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html


2/8/2010 7:05:00 AM From: MrsK According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day.6 Other estimates, such as those generated by the FBI, are much lower because they rely on data from law enforcement agencies. A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done and the personal nature of the incident.7 http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html


2/8/2010 7:05:34 AM From: LiquidSnake You honestly think were more animals then the people in the middle east? We got nothing on them, that area of the world has been in turmoil and filled with the worst of the worst for the past few thousand years. I say we got some catching up to do before making such claims.


2/8/2010 7:06:05 AM From: MrsK Oops, I posted one twice. Oh well. Praise Jesus.


2/8/2010 7:11:13 AM From: MrsK "You honestly think were more animals then the people in the middle east?" I think people are "animals" accross the board. No need to discriminate by "Region"


2/8/2010 7:45:19 AM From: BCAR Islam is a religion that represes women and encourages violence against "nonbelievers". Simple fact, bore out on a daily basis by their actions. Note DAILY BASIS. Not random violence by delusional followers but Daily atrocities encouraged and condoned by various organized sects.


2/8/2010 7:58:45 AM From: MrsK 600 women a day sexually assualted or raped is not enough of a DAILY occurence for you? I guess I see where you stand on crimes against women. Damn.


2/8/2010 8:02:52 AM From: MrsK Women in the Middle East do not report crimes for fear nothing can/will be done about the abuse. Women in the U.S. seem to feel the same way. 2/8/2010 7:05:00 AM From: MrsK "... A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done and the personal nature of the incident.7"


2/8/2010 8:13:33 AM From: BCAR As deplorable as violence against women is and as much I'd love to take up the bait made by that incredibly senseless acusation. I think I'll stay on topic and address the stone age mentality of a religion that encourages murder, mutilation and fanatacism by it's followers. Most people in the civilized world moved past this long ago.


2/8/2010 8:14:38 AM From: emkay64 What an awful way to die. The suffering and fear must have been unbearable. We are a hideous species.


2/8/2010 8:21:37 AM From: MrsK It's tongue in cheek BCAR, you can't take what you dish out or what? Whether there are 600 or 6000 women being abused daily in the Middle East, until it is 100% accross the board cleaned out at home, we have no place making judgements on another part of the world. Now since you want to stay on topic with the post lets look at another little factoid shall we? "According the statistics from the prime minister's office, there were 16 honour killings in Medine's province of Adiyaman between 2003 and 2007." From the post. Hmmm... How many women were killed in any given major city between the years of 2003-2007 in the United States? Are you really going to nitpick and relay that the reasons for murder are different so that should affect our opiions somehow? Isn't Murder, Murder.


2/8/2010 8:24:26 AM From: MrsK I agree with Emkay.


2/8/2010 9:58:19 AM From: BCAR I don't abuse women so I certainly can pass judgement on another part of the world and a backwards religion that condones the murder of inocents. Comparing the crimes commited by criminals in the U.S., who should be locked up as all homicidal manics should, and the actions caried out at the direction of clergy in a religion who's stated goal is to take over the world are two completely unrelated things. Just a shame that these backward goat violators are constantly defended by the P.C. folks out there. Would they in turn defend common criminals and murderers in society. By the convoluted logic of some they would.


2/8/2010 11:00:21 AM From: MrsK Oh yes, the typical personal insults when you can't justify the focus on these attacks against this religion. Because people are assholes, they are slime they are jerks and they SUCK. Regardless of race, religion or creed. Just face it. Honing in on one group of humans and consistently attacking them on a global scale to draw attention to their faults is only showing that you have no insight to your own people. Americans are just as big of assholes as Mid. Easterners. They just have different reasons. It has to do with throwing stones and living in a glass house BCAR.


2/8/2010 11:03:03 AM From: MrsK I guess it is perfectly ok for a man to burry a woman alive, so long as his motives are not Muslim religious fanatical ones. Nice.


2/8/2010 11:21:03 AM From: RaE That argument is irrelevant.. Where else does a man bury a woman alive?


2/8/2010 11:24:27 AM From: MrsK I think that comment went way over your head RaE.


2/8/2010 12:46:01 PM From: emkay64 The answer to RaE's question....In his lap? I thought it was a riddle...okay...nevermind.


2/8/2010 1:31:20 PM From: BCAR People I hang out with aren't slime, or assholes and they don't suck. Then again I hang with a better group of people, and no Muslims.


2/8/2010 1:39:07 PM From: Ali I suck, and you still hang out with me. Whazzup wit dat?


2/8/2010 2:02:43 PM From: RaE i agree with BCAR


2/8/2010 2:11:55 PM From: mercury I think the difference between "our" violence and "their" violence is that no one gets labeled a martyr and put on a pedestal when they commit a violent act in our region. People speak out (publicly) against the violence and it's not accepted as culturally correct or applauded. Of course, I could be mistaken... I've never been to the Middle East, maybe they have rape crisis centers on every corner. Maybe they do denounce these things and we don't get the news feed with translations. ???


2/8/2010 2:15:32 PM From: Ali Excellent point, Merc.


2/8/2010 2:50:52 PM From: LiquidSnake Not uh, Merc, didn't you hear? Were worse then the middle east.


2/8/2010 4:47:39 PM From: whogo Ayaan Hirsi Ali A refugee from Western Europe By Sam Harris and Salman Rushdie Published: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 As you read this, Ayaan Hirsi Ali sits in a safe house with armed men guarding her door. She is one of the most poised, intelligent and compassionate advocates of freedom of speech and conscience alive today, and for this she is despised in Muslim communities throughout the world. The details of her story have been widely reported, but bear repeating, as they illustrate how poorly equipped we are to deal with the threat of Muslim extremism in the West. Hirsi Ali first fled to the Netherlands as a refugee from Somalia in 1992 after declining to submit to a forced marriage to a man she did not know. Once there, in hiding from her family, she began working as a cleaning lady. But this cleaning lady spoke Somali, Arabic, Amharic, Swahili, English and was quickly learning Dutch, so she soon found work as a translator for other Somali refugees, many of whom, like herself, were casualties of Islam. These women had been abused, mutilated, denied medical care and proper educations and forced into lives of sexual subjection and compulsory childbearing. After attending the University of Leiden, where she studied political science and philosophy, Hirsi Ali began speaking publicly about the repression of women under Islam, and shortly thereafter started receiving death threats. Her security situation eventually became so dire that she moved to the United States in 2002. However, she was soon contacted by Gerrit Zalm, then deputy prime minister of the Netherlands, who urged her to run for the Dutch Parliament. When Hirsi Ali voiced her security concerns, Zalm assured her that she would be given diplomatic protection wherever and whenever she needed it. She returned to the Netherlands with this assurance, won a seat in Parliament and became a tireless advocate for women, for civil society and for reason. In 2004, Hirsi Ali collaborated with Theo van Gogh on the film "Submission," which examined the link between Islamic law and the suffering of millions of women under Islam. The reaction from the Muslim community was nothing short of psychopathic, and it confirmed both the necessity of Hirsi Ali's work and the reasonableness of her fears. Theo Van Gogh, having declined bodyguards of his own, was soon gunned down and nearly decapitated on an Amsterdam street, and a letter threatening Hirsi Ali was staked to his chest with a butcher knife. Hirsi Ali was immediately forced into hiding and moved from safe house to safe house, sometimes more than once a day, for months. Eventually, her security concerns drove her from the Netherlands altogether. She returned to the United States, and the Dutch government has been paying for her protection here - that is, until it suddenly announced last week that it would no longer protect her outside the Netherlands, thereby advertising her vulnerability to the world. It is important to realize that Hirsi Ali may be the first refugee from Western Europe since the Holocaust. As such, she is a unique and indispensable witness to both the strength and weakness of the West: to the splendor of open society, and to the boundless energy of its antagonists. She knows the challenges we face in our struggle to contain the misogyny and religious fanaticism of the Muslim world, and she lives with the consequences of our failure each day. There is no one in a better position to remind us that tolerance of intolerance is cowardice. Having recapitulated the Enlightenment for herself in a few short years, Hirsi Ali has surveyed every inch of the path leading out of the moral and intellectual wasteland that is traditional Islam. She has written two luminous books describing her journey, the most recent of which, "Infidel," has been an international bestseller for months. It is difficult to exaggerate her courage. As Christopher Caldwell wrote in The New York Times, "Voltaire did not risk, with his every utterance, making a billion enemies who recognized his face and could, via the Internet, share information instantaneously with people who aspired to assassinate him." The Dutch Parliament will be debating Hirsi Ali's case this week. As it stands, the government's decision to protect her only within the borders of the Netherlands is genuinely perverse. While the Dutch have been protecting Hirsi Ali in the United States, it is actually far more expensive for them to protect her in the Netherlands, as the risk to her is greatest there. There is also the matter of broken promises: Hirsi Ali was persuaded to run for Parliament, and to become the world's most visible and imperiled spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women, on the understanding that she would be provided security for as long as she needed it. Gerrit Zalm, in his capacity as both the deputy prime minister and the minister of finance, promised her such security without qualification. Most shamefully, Jan Peter Balkenende, the Dutch prime minister, has recommended that Hirsi Ali simply quit the Netherlands, while refusing to grant her even a week's protection outside the country during which she might raise funds to hire security of her own. Is this a craven attempt to placate Muslim fanatics? A warning to other Dutch dissidents not to stir up trouble by speaking too frankly about Islam? Or just pure thoughtlessness? The Dutch government should recognize a scandal in the making and rediscover its obligation to provide Hirsi Ali with the protection she was promised. There is not a person alive more deserving of the freedoms of speech and conscience we take for granted in the West, nor is there anyone making a more courageous effort to defend them.


2/8/2010 4:50:43 PM From: whogo Sadly, I doubt if Ms. Ali lives to a ripe old age.


2/8/2010 4:58:09 PM From: LiquidSnake Wow.. I'm gonna pick up her book. Thanks for that info, Hugo.


2/8/2010 5:01:33 PM From: whogo It's a great book.


2/8/2010 5:06:48 PM From: LiquidSnake It's not nonfiction, but I read a book about the plight of women in the middle east, it centers around real events going on in Kabul, Afghanistan. It was called A Thousand Splendid Suns. Prob the most heartbreaking story I've ever read.


2/8/2010 5:27:56 PM From: whogo It is sad MrsK supports Middle Eastern women being treated worse than cattle. Sad, quite sad.


2/8/2010 5:37:56 PM From: whogo Ms. Ali, a true heroine: About twelve years ago, at age twenty-two, I arrived in Western Europe, on the run from an arranged marriage. I soon learned that God and His truth had been humanized here. For Muslims life on earth is merely a transitory stage before the hereafter; but here people are also allowed to invest in their lives as mortals. What is more, hell seems no longer to exist, and God is a god of love rather than a cruel ruler who metes out punishments. I began to take a more critical look at my faith and discovered three important elements of Islam that had not particularly struck me before. The first of these is that a Muslim's relationship with his God is one of fear. A Muslim's conception of God is absolute. Our God demands total submission. He rewards you if you follow His rules meticulously. He punishes you cruelly if you break His rules, both on earth, with illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire. The second element is that Islam knows only one moral source: the Prophet Muhammad. Muhammad is infallible. You would almost believe he is himself a god, but the Koran says explicitly that Muhammad is a human being; he is a supreme human being, though, the most perfect human being. We must live our lives according to his example. What is written in the Koran is what God said as it was heard by Muhammad. The thousands of hadiths -- accounts of what Muhammad said and did, and the advice he gave, which survives in weighty books -- tell us exactly how a Muslim was supposed to live in the seventh century. Devout Muslims consult these works daily to answer questions about life in the twenty-first century. The third element is that Islam is strongly dominated by a sexual morality derived from tribal Arab values dating from the time the Prophet received his instructions from Allah, a culture in which women were the property of their fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, or guardians. The essence of a woman is reduced to her hymen. Her veil functions as a constant reminder to the outside world of this stifling morality that makes Muslim men the owners of women and obliges them to prevent their mothers, sisters, aunts, sisters-in-law, cousins, nieces, and wives from having sexual contact. And we are not just talking about cohabitation. It is an offense if a woman glances in the direction of a man, brushes past his arm, or shakes his hand. A man's reputation and honor depend entirely on the respectable, obedient behavior of the female members of his family. These three elements explain largely why Muslim nations are lagging behind the West and, more recently, also lagging behind Asia. In order to break through the mental bars of this trinity, behind which the majority of Muslims are restrained, we must begin with a critical self-examination. But any Muslim who asks critical questions about Islam is immediately branded a "deserter." A Muslim who advocates the exploration of sources for morality, in addition to those of the Prophet Muhammad, will be threatened with death, and a woman who withdraws from the virgins' cage is branded a whore.


2/8/2010 6:46:01 PM From: eddo Sarah Palin has never buried anyone alive...


2/8/2010 9:35:11 PM From: LiquidSnake Damn, that sums up Islam's faults quite eloquently. And for those reasons, I have little respect for organized religion, ESPECIALLY Islam.


2/8/2010 9:37:26 PM From: LiquidSnake Now stop putting all that info out there, your gonna ruin the book for me lol. My mind is still like a sponge, I want to soak up any knowledge and stories put before me.


2/8/2010 10:30:08 PM From: MrsK There are not battered womens shelters on every corner in the Middle East. Because not every woman needs it. However, they are there. When I was doing research for this post earlier I read about charities for them. And BCAR the people I "hang out" with are not slime either, but in general people are assholes, slime, and they suck. As a whole... humans are shit. We mistreat eachother (directly or indirectly) we mistreat our home/ our planet, we hate eachother, we torture eachother, we say hurtful things and later we act as thoguh we are justified because "There is always someone worse." I've said my peace. I'm done.


2/9/2010 2:18:34 AM From: LiquidSnake The last place on Earth a sane woman would want to be is in the Middle East.


2/9/2010 3:40:25 AM From: whogo Support female genital mutilation. It's diverse!


2/9/2010 5:19:36 AM From: BCAR "These three elements explain largely why Muslim nations are lagging behind the West and, more recently, also lagging behind Asia. In order to break through the mental bars of this trinity, behind which the majority of Muslims are restrained, we must begin with a critical self-examination. But any Muslim who asks critical questions about Islam is immediately branded a "deserter." A Muslim who advocates the exploration of sources for morality, in addition to those of the Prophet Muhammad, will be threatened with death, and a woman who withdraws from the virgins' cage is branded a whore." Nice People these Muslims. Praise Allah ---------- Or Die!!!!


2/9/2010 5:21:50 AM From: BCAR "but in general people are assholes, slime, and they suck. As a whole... humans are shit. We mistreat eachother (directly or indirectly) we mistreat our home/ our planet, we hate eachother, we torture eachother, we say hurtful things and later we act as thoguh we are justified because "There is always someone worse." Well MrsK it's too bad this is the world you've chosen to exist in. Many many people on this very planet do not.


2/9/2010 5:34:12 AM From: Rani I found this article interesting http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/hk.html It basically states the religion does not support honor killings. "The problem of â��honor killingsâ�� is not a problem of morality or of ensuring that women maintain their own personal virtue; rather, it is a problem of domination, power and hatred of women who, in these instances, are viewed as nothing more than servants to the family, both physically and symbolically." A woman who engages in illicit sexual activity is supposed to be charged in a court of law, the same as any islamic male who engages in illicit sexual activity, and, there is a requirement of 4 witnesses to this "sexually activity" before charges can be brought; but women, due to the embarrassment the family would face, are rarely taken to court. The men choose instead to kill them and pretend she never existed. Other men understand, so turn a blind eye. So, I can see where MK is coming from, domestic violence is domestic violence regardless of the justification.


2/9/2010 5:51:36 AM From: MrsK I've exlained this all before Rani. But it is easier for them to hate something or someone they don't understand, and use it as a tool to spread those feelings and feel justified as human beings, because they can point their fingers and condemn something. I think it gives them a feeling of power. Sick really, when you think about it. Sort of like ... Psychological Rape. Kick and abuse the subject, choke it, keep it down and make yourself feel powerful because you can. Absolutely sickening. Frankly the way I look at this is that MEN are the ones to blame. They are, afterall the ones responsible for 99.9% of all the "Honor Killings" overseas, as well as the domestic violence, child molestations, and rapes here in the U.S. Lets do away with them. Off with their heads.


2/9/2010 5:59:42 AM From: BCAR http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/04/girl-buried-alive-turkey Here's a nice article, complete with pictures of the hole they (they being MUSLIMS) buried her in. Dirt found in her lungs and stomach. Be glad your parents aren't Muslim ladies.


2/9/2010 6:01:35 AM From: MrsK Case in point.


2/9/2010 6:09:59 AM From: LiquidSnake It takes talent to attempt to twist the argument to where the "men" of this website become the villains, who are the ones decrying the behavior, and last I checked, none of us have committed any honor killings lately. But carry on.


2/9/2010 6:16:15 AM From: MrsK lol! I meant men in general LS.


2/9/2010 6:17:40 AM From: LiquidSnake Ok.


2/9/2010 6:18:12 AM From: Rani It is very clear to anyone willing to see, the Islamic religion is a violent religion. While I can understand where MK is coming from, I see a valid reason to critize and take action to do something about the violence coming from those who choose to be Muslim. To pretend there is no violence and that the Muslim faith is a harmless faith is also turning a blind eye to the domestic violence that is so widely accepted in that religion. The fact that domestic violence is a disease that can and does happen in all walks of life does not diminish the issue Muslims have coming out of their religion and it is up to Muslims to change it. Where our culture differs from the Islamic culture, when our women are murdered in a domestic violent crime, the men are not given a pat on the back and a free pass to continue being upstanding members of society. Domination, and power are but a couple of symptoms that is the true root that intices men and women to commit acts of domestic violence...fear. So many people in this world are so insecure and so afraid that a person might have sex that they deliberately look for ways to justify keeping that person under lock and key. As parents, we go into vapor lock down at the very thought our teenaged daughters (not so much our sons) might have sex, so we spend a huge amount of time and energy trying to prevent it from happening instead of preparing them for one of the most natural and endearing next stage of life. In the majority, spouses naturally desire to be the only sexual partner in their spouses life. This is because you made a commitment for it to be that way. Even in relgions that support polgamy, it is not okay for a woman to have more than one husband. Women, I believe are hence forth brain washed into believing this is okay.


2/9/2010 6:18:28 AM From: MrsK I guess it puts it into perspective though doesn't it? You can blame an entire religion of people for a behavior, but when it's done to you suddenly it becomes villification. Interesting...


2/9/2010 6:20:48 AM From: MrsK I don't turn a blind eye to violence Rani. But I refuse to jump on the bandwagon of blaming everyone associated with Islam to further a political and social agenda.


2/9/2010 6:21:43 AM From: LiquidSnake No the only thing it puts into perspective for me is you have a very warped sense of the world. But I'm sure you could say the same of me, so it's a moot point to argue.


2/9/2010 6:23:43 AM From: MrsK What's more is why stand by silently while people with little insight to a culture ublicly rape it to death. Like that woman who was raped in plain view, but no one stopped to help her just a couple of months ago.


2/9/2010 6:25:41 AM From: MrsK Oh wait let me add: Little Insight! Why, we have plenty of insight! Just watch the news!!! What insight you have is from your twisted little media sources want you to see.


2/9/2010 6:29:46 AM From: LiquidSnake Well, all I can hope is that my uncle doesn't decide to kill any of my 3 female cousins in the future, what with being a devout muslim and all. We'll see if they can make it to adulthood.


2/9/2010 6:33:53 AM From: BCAR The fundementalist Muslim religion encourages the subjegation of women, the punishment of the infidel, the spread of the "true faith" by violence, and the instant death of those who insult Mohamed. It happens every day, it's happening right now. And it's not twisted criminal minds causing it. It's good "followers of Allah" who are doing it. That's a problem, and if it was Christians doing it in the name of their religion you'd be screaming from the rooftops about it. All the twisted logic and circular arguement aside.


2/9/2010 6:34:36 AM From: Rani The fact remains there is a double standard to sexual behavior when it comes to men and women. Above all, men desire a virtuous woman. He wants someone he can trust and if she is out there with every Tom, Dick, and Harry, in his mind, how can he trust her with his deepest darkest secrets? A man wants a woman that is very much husband oriented, one that is an asset to his life, not a liability. A man does not want a woman to be frivolous or embarrassing in her conduct. But sadly, in many cases, men do not understand or are not willing to give what they want in order to have what they want. The ones who do, deserve as much high respect as the women who are virtuous. Because, push come to shove women want virtuous men for husbands too. Many choose a different path to get what they want from their wives and daughters...abuse. Physical, and emotional. And more times than not, it leads to death.


2/9/2010 6:34:47 AM From: MrsK Oh... Right. An uncle who is a devout Muslim. And you haven't preached to him the error of his ways LS? Careful or they'll kick you out of the club. LOL!


2/9/2010 6:36:31 AM From: LiquidSnake Actually I have had my arguments with him, MrsK. He has valid points, and I have valid points, and we have a mutual respect all the same. It is possible for Christians and Muslims to get along.


2/9/2010 6:45:26 AM From: MrsK Ls, as pretty much everybody here knows my husband is a Muslim. Yet, I am not a subject. I am his Habibi (Little love) and he treats me with repsect and in the 10+ years I've known him (despite what his convictions at the present time are) he has NEVER raised his hand or even his voice to me. Not when he was home and not now, not once - ever. Sure he made mistakes, and he hasn't always been a blessing of an angel. But what man is perfect? Islam demands one thing from BOTH partners in a marriage - Respect. It demands a man care for his wife and take care of her family. It demands he treat her with kindness and compassion. But it demands the same of the woman.


2/9/2010 6:48:57 AM From: LiquidSnake Well that's wonderful for you, MrsK, I just hope it stays that way, for your sake.


2/9/2010 7:00:39 AM From: Rani MK, I never intended to suggest you would turn a bling eye to violence. Nor have I ever stated that all Muslims are violent. I am saying that the Muslim religion has some serious issue with violence and they need to stand up and face what is happening and have been happening in their culture and do something about it. I do not see it as raping an entire culture to death to stand up and challenge the validity of honor killings. I know there are many gentle and good people that are also muslim. But I also know that a person of Muslim faith does believe that if Allah commanded them to commit an act of violence against another person they would not hesitate to do it. Not only that, they also believe if they can show that they are acting on behalf of Allah, they are praised for their actions. I know this because I had someone look me in the eye and tell me she would not have a problem killing me if Allah told her to do so. So the question remains, in my mind, is...Are fathers who kill their daughters to retain their family honor and status, following the direct order of Allah? All these beheadings, and bombings, is this really by the order of Allah? Or are these,the hideous acts of abusing and the raping of a gentle religion? Do not scream at me about the raping of an entire culture when I become offended when I see the Muslim culture embrace and condone such acts of violence. Yes, it is true, domestic violence is everywhere but it is not condoned everywhere. So, is it Allah or is it a perverted intepretation and raping of Allah that such violence prevails?


2/9/2010 7:05:20 AM From: Rani I can safely state that if Allah truly orders fathers to kill their daughters, at all, never mind in such a violent henious manner and bury her alive, simply because she embarassed him; I have a problem with Allah and I am sure Muslim is not the religion for me.


2/9/2010 7:07:56 AM From: LiquidSnake Well I'm pretty sure any sane person would take issue with that, too, Rani.


2/9/2010 7:09:47 AM From: MrsK Did not Abraham raise a hand to kill his own son when God ordered him to do so? And I haven't screamed at you, or anyone in this post Rani. I haven't even gotten fired up enough to use exclamation points, not really. This friend of yours was probably toying with your brain if you were asking a lot of silly questions. The answer I recieved when I asked David about that was that yes he would, but any request like that would not come from Allah, not ever. So it was ridiculous to even ask the question. Sort of like if I asked you if Jesus came down tomorrow and asked you to kill your best friend would you do it? If God came down tomorrow and told me to kill my nephew... I would know damn well God didn't ask me to do it and I needed to check into the nearest mental health facility. But then I'm not a devout anything.


2/9/2010 7:15:12 AM From: MrsK Further, the MEN (Not Allah) committing these heionous acts are using their religion as a tool to control women. MEN (Not Allah) do these things all the time. Whether it be with laws or hands. To cast aside the valdity of the voilence her in the U.S. because we don't blame it on God is assinine. It is also an insult to women in our own nation who struggle with abuse. Why not just slap them in the face and tell them thier pain isn't real because they aren't Muslim.


2/9/2010 7:42:10 AM From: Rani No, my friend was not toying with my brain and I did not ask her if she would kill me if Allah commanded her to do so. This happened at the same time as 9/11 happened. And she shared this with me in an attempt to help me understand the mentality of the bombers and the level of devotion many Muslim have toward Allah. Just as the act of Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son to God was also done to show the level of devotion Abraham was willing to give his God. That in truth, if they believed, truly believed, Allah told them to commit such a crime they would without question. So, if any request like that would not come from Allah, not ever. Why did Muslims dance in the streets when the WTC, the Pentagon, and the other plane went down? Why are fathers, brothers, etc. who murder their daughters in such evil ways not prosecuted? Why did Muslims march in the streets and calling for the death of a woman teacher over a teddy bear's name? Why is such violence condoned by the people of Islam? So you see, it is not me or anyone else here that are appalled by a common practice of honor killings within the Muslim religion the ones who are abusing and raping a gentle religion. We are the ones challenging the gentle Muslim religion to take a stand and realize Allah is not sending the command to kill daughters to restore a family's honor. Because a request like that would not come from Allah, not ever. And it is long past time that this be labled for what it really is, a henious crime against Allah, for it is done in Allah's name, and against a child of Allah and justice be brought with a heavy hand.


2/9/2010 7:47:29 AM From: Rani and my answer to you, if Jesus came down and asked me to kill my best friend, we would have a serious battle, Jesus and I.


2/9/2010 7:47:56 AM From: MrsK Again, look at the number of "Honor Killings" that have been committed. Look at the rate at which these things occur and not the rate at which they are reported and used as a tool. Then compare those numbers with the numbers of our own crime rates against women. As for the people dancing in the streets after 9/11 - look at how our country reacts to victories in battle. It was an act of war, not an act of God.


2/9/2010 7:48:51 AM From: BCAR Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Jews, and even Wiccans aren't spreading the word of Jihad and murder throughout the globe. And actively acting on it on a daily basis. BTW Abraham also lived over 4,000 years ago. Most civilized people have moved on a bit since then. Well with the exception of fundementalist Islam.


2/9/2010 7:58:55 AM From: BCAR Acts of war are taken against military or military support targets. After a declaration of hostilities. Hyjacking civilian aircraft and flying them into buildings full of innocent civilians with no warning what so ever in an attempt to maximize casualties is an act of murder. A cowardly, act of terror that only the most twisted and fanatic minds could come up with. Those minds were all, collectively working for the glory of Allah.


2/9/2010 8:00:32 AM From: Rani You do see the point I make, we, do not give honor to domestic violence. A man, or woman who commits an act of domestic violence, and most certianly one that results in death is considered a low life and is prosecuted for committing a henious crime. We have no sympathy for them. Why should we have sympathy for those who do so in the name of Allah? Give me a reason I should not hold the Muslim religion accountable to bring justice to those who commit these henious crimes and not lose respect for the religion when it fails to do so? Why is it that a family's honor in a Muslim country can be restored by killing a young women for making a stupid mistake?


2/9/2010 8:15:02 AM From: Rani I could care less if it is a 1,000:1 ratio in quantity, every person killed in a domestic violent manner deserves justice. In the case of Muslims, where the Muslim religion is the form of Government, a young girl murdered in an honor killing deserves the justice of Allah. Now, if Allah does not ever command a father to kill his daughter for honor, then a sin against Allah has been committed and Allah's wrath be upon him. But thus far, I have only been shown that this is acceptable and not only that but "there is strong peer pressure from the community on the male members of the family to restore their honour" and "The only way allowed by their code is to kill the girl or woman" What else am I to believe but the ugly truth that many do truly believe Allah commands these killings? What else am I to believe but the ugly truth that Allah's justice for girls and women who dishonor her family is death, not only death but a brutual henious death? If the Muslim community wants me to believe something else, then they need to show me something else.


2/9/2010 8:29:20 AM From: MrsK But in the mean time you'll only hear what YOUR community wants you to hear because that is the line they are feeding you. There really isn't any point in debating this because all you will ever see is what you want to see. Islam as a whole is NOT spreading the word of Jihad (which by the way - I bet you don't even know the meaning of the word). A group of religious extremists is spreading that crap. But hey, it's the typical human fashion to judge others by the worst examples than by the best. Again, lets point the finger at whoever is doing worse than we are, so it makes us look good.


2/9/2010 8:31:15 AM From: MrsK I will say this agian, as I have time and time and time and time again - Clean the shit in your backyard before you go trying to clean everyone elses.


2/9/2010 8:49:28 AM From: Rani http://www.opposingviews.com/i/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence "Yotam Feldner, a researcher at the Middle East Media Research Institute, quotes a psychiatrist in Gaza who describes the honor killing culture as one in which a man who refrains from "washing shame with blood" is a "coward who is not worthy of living...as less than a man." http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm "The killers mainly defend their act of murder by referring to the Koran and Islam. Family guardian will say that they are merely following the directives set down in their Islamic ethical beliefs. And this kind of cruel killings to save family honor had happened, still happening, and will remain to happenâ��only to a Muslim family." What does the Quran say??? Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15 Not murdered.


2/9/2010 8:54:49 AM From: Rani And, it has been stated... Honor killing should never be confused with wife beating, or wife killings by husbands or other relatives.


2/9/2010 9:05:38 AM From: BCAR No one has to point any finger at radical Islam, they are quite capable of doing it themselves. They seem to work at it actually. When it comes to honor killings, murder, bombings, death threats and abuse of women I dare say that, YES, I am better than these shit heels. I sure don't see any Lutherans walking around with AK 47's in crowds of thousands saying death to America. I can't say I can recall the last Catholic suicide bomber (there were at least 5 muslim ones last week alone). Were those Hindu monks flying those planes? Did wiccans cut Daniel Pearl's head of while chanting Allah Akbar?


2/9/2010 9:07:57 AM From: BCAR Quote: "Again, lets point the finger at whoever is doing worse than we are, so it makes us look good. " Ha, Ha, Yea no shit. They make us look GREAT. They make cockroaches look great.


2/9/2010 9:14:46 AM From: Rani Differing Characteristics of Honor Killings The extended family and community valorize the honor killing. They do not condemn the perpetrators in the name of Islam. Mainly, honor killings are seen as normative. It is always planned and usually planned with full particpation of all family members. The murderer(s) do not show remorse. Instead, they experience themselves as "victims," defending themselves from the girl's actions and trying to restore their lost family honor. and Domestic Violence The batterer-murderer is seen as a criminal; no one defends him as a hero. Such men are often viewed as sociopaths, mentally ill, or evil. The murder is often unplanned and spontaneous. The batterer-murderer does not claim any family concept of "honor." The reasons may range from a poorly cooked meal to suspected infidelity to the woman's trying to protect the children from his abuse or turning to the authorities for help. Jihad, isn't that the Holy War against infidels? A religious duty of Muslims. http://www.answers.com/topic/jihad "In Islam, the central doctrine that calls on believers to combat the enemies of their religion. According to the Qur'an and the Hadith, jihad is a duty that may be fulfilled in four ways: by the heart, the tongue, the hand, or the sword. The first way (known in Sufism as the "greater jihad" involves struggling against evil desires. The ways of the tongue and hand call for verbal defense and right actions. The jihad of the sword involves waging war against enemies of Islam. Believers contend that those who die in combat become martyrs and are guaranteed a place in paradise. In the 20th and 21st centuries the concept of jihad has sometimes been used as an ideological weapon in the effort to combat Western influences and secular governments and to establish an ideal Islamic society."


2/9/2010 10:01:12 AM From: Ali Every religious group has their radicals. And these radicals are often prone to extreme views and have a nasty habit of creating their own laws in the name of their god. But it does boil down to numbers. In this day and age, I can't think of another religion other than the followers of Islam that have a greater number of followers on the radical end of the Islamic spectrum. That's scary. And very, very dangerous.


2/9/2010 10:02:21 AM From: MrsK I can agree with Ali's just said.


2/9/2010 10:06:19 AM From: MrsK Grrrr! I can agree with what Ali's just said. I swear it's the keyboard. It IS a scary thought, a scary occurence and a scar set of numbers. But at least you can understand that it is the radical's responsible for this, and that every religion has it's nut jobs. Further, I think it would be wise for others to keep in mind that while the numbers are high; Islam is not a small religion in a small region of the world. Muslims represent 22% of the worlds population. That is an astounding number of people. 1.2 Billion estimated.


2/9/2010 10:08:06 AM From: MrsK So of course if you target the crime and malice of one of the lasgest groups of people in the world it's going to look as if they are a group of hardened murderes. Your getting an pseudo-amplified set of occurences.


2/9/2010 10:27:37 AM From: BCAR Especially when the malicious group is a large percentage of that group and supported by several countries that are religious theocracys. And several more countries are teetering on the brink. Add to that the fact that a growing number of religious leaders preach this violence from the alter and that by and large the mainstream members of this religion have done little to denounce it and yes you have a problem. It's it's more than just a mathmatical group of "a few bad apples".


2/9/2010 10:31:22 AM From: MrsK But you still fail to see that we have our own bad apples BCAR. What bunch doesn't have bad apples? I am not dismissing these terrible things, but again I refuse to jump on a bandwagon that turns a blind eye to doing something about its own first. Preaching hatred from the pulpit? Yes, like the preacher who "Hates Obama," and wanted to see him "Mel like a snail in salt." The one who wished he was dead. And his followers patted him on the back and told him what a good boy he was.


2/9/2010 10:36:06 AM From: MrsK And yet, I would not be so quick to judge every Christian on the planet over something like this. Afterall... I let Eddo slide. (Just kidding Eddo!)


2/9/2010 10:47:00 AM From: BCAR In the US it is a criminal act to do these things. And so a preacher said something bad about Obama and Rev Wright said "God Damn America". And if someone does hurt or kill someone they will promptly be sent to prison and if they do it in the name of God 99.999% of people will condemn it. That is the difference. Deflecting the issue by saying "they do it too" rarely works and in this case it doesn't work at all because all the evidence proves otherwise.


2/9/2010 10:48:32 AM From: Ali But it really does boil down to numbers and percentages, MK. Yes, I think everyone here will admit that every group, every religion, every race, every gender has their share of bad apples! Absolutely. But when you start seeing a large percentage of the world's largest religion turning to the radical side of the spectrum, it can't be swept under the rug. This is where political correctness becomes a dangerous ideal. Because of the vast numbers of Islamic extremists looking to destroy anything that goes against their religion, Muslims HAVE to understand that there needs to be a certain level of racial/religious profiling maintained to protect the innocent...the Muslim innocent, included! I'm not suggesting that every single Muslim be taken out into the streets and shot, because I do understand that there are good people who follow Islam...BUT, as far as I'm concerned the religion as a whole has lost their PC privileges and they have no room to complain when extra precautions are taken against them.


2/9/2010 10:59:22 AM From: MrsK There is a time and place for PC and a time and place for profiling. PC keeps profiling on its toes. Because without PC profiling would take it a step too far. The balance is off, because there have been so many conflicts as of late. But I suspect the balance will regain its' composure, it has already started doing so. Now your comment had me in full agreement until the verbage at the very end. '...when extra precautions are taken "against" them.' I can't support that view. It should not be "Against" them because there is no "Them". What bothers me is the lumping of all the Muslims into that vat. It isn't fair, and PC aside it isn't right. To protect all of us, including other Muslims from radicals. That is what I would say. But that's just me. Back when 9-11 happened. A couple of days after, I went into work as usual, sadder but wiser. AND ALL I kept hearing was - Lets make glass parking lots! Ok. I absolutely understood and felt the rage and the anger and the pain of what had happened. But to me... Making glass parking lots indicates killing innocents, too. How can you make a right of two wrongs? Were we retaliating? Or were we strategizing when Bush pulled our troops overseas? IMO - it was retaliation pure and simple. And now there is a red ants nest of radicals who have American anger and retaliation to fuel their message of hatred about us.


2/9/2010 11:02:56 AM From: MrsK I'm not getting excited my shift key is deciding to spontaneously get stuck.


2/9/2010 11:15:07 AM From: Rani My whole thing is, I do not have a problem with the fact that Muslim religion has domestic violence issues, because in fact you will see that domestic violence comes from every walk of life. What I have a problem with is when murder is a normal thing to do and a man is respected for committing in order to restore his honor. That is not a good thing and it reflects badly on the religion. There is no honor in a religion that condones these types of killings. Sorry if that offends anyone but that is how I feel about it. If you want me to feel differently show me what the religion is really all about, because I am not impressed by what I have been shown thus far.


2/9/2010 11:18:32 AM From: Rani I keep hearing that is not Islam and then I keep seeing it happen over and over again. Actions are louder than words.


2/9/2010 11:21:42 AM From: MrsK That is where you have it wrong Rani. Murder is not a normal thing to do. The post itself says that in this major city in Turkey in a span of 4 years there were 16 of these crimes committed. And the government and people of Islam do not condone or congradulate them. What you've been shown is a story that has been commented on leaving out those details in the replies. Now I ask you again, how many parents have killed their children (American Parents) in the past four years? How many kidnappings and rapes have there been in families? The father and grandfather were arrested in this story. If that is a congrdulatory mark I'd like to know what punishment is.


2/9/2010 11:25:08 AM From: Rani And I hope you know me well enough that when I criticize a religion, I am not criticizing every person in it. I am going after the doctorines of the religion. If Islamic teachings do not support and encourage honor killings, then why is it condoned? Why are these murderers valorized by family and community? Why are these murderers treated like they are the victims?


2/9/2010 11:28:53 AM From: MrsK From The Post: But while it is true that most such killings are carried out in conservative Muslim communities, the practice is linked more to the customs of this region of Turkey, than to religious belief.


2/9/2010 11:29:48 AM From: MrsK From the Post: Last year a Turkish man was sentenced to life imprisonment in London for the murder of his 15-year-old daughter a decade earlier. Her body has never been found.


2/9/2010 11:39:56 AM From: Rani Arrested but not charged with murder. 1st degree murder. Hypothetically speaking... You and David are married and David is muslim, you have a daughter and she is now a young teenager. Your daughter meets a guy and David disapproves of him and forbids her to ever speak to him again, she defies David. What does the Doctorines of Islam teach David to do about this? Where do the fathers and families of the young victims of honor killings get the bright idea to brutually murder their daughters to restore Dad's diginty and honor? I know for myself, I would kill my husband before I would allow him to kill my daughter, yet in many cases the mother is also in the planning of an honor killing.


2/9/2010 11:42:15 AM From: Ali "Now your comment had me in full agreement until the verbage at the very end. '...when extra precautions are taken "against" them.' I can't support that view. It should not be "Against" them because there is no "Them". What bothers me is the lumping of all the Muslims into that vat. It isn't fair, and PC aside it isn't right. To protect all of us, including other Muslims from radicals. That is what I would say. But that's just me." There is most definitely a "them" because as BCAR stated, the mainstream religion doesn't separate itself from the radicals nor attempt to condemn them for their actions. This violence has to be contained, and being sensitive to their feelings is NOT going to save lives...many lives. I'm not suggesting that only Muslims be stopped and strip searched when they are going about their daily business, but in situations like airport security and access to Federal buildings, I think anyone associated with the religion of Islam should be double checked for terrorist intentions based on what history has taught us. The extremists are working hard to make sure that those who follow Islam are not to be trusted. They've earned the reputation, and now it's time to face the consequences for it.


2/9/2010 11:45:13 AM From: MrsK You can't hold them to a standard of American Laws Rani. 1st Degree murder is not a Turkish charge it is an American one. And thus far we've been told nothing at all what so ever about any charges. Only that they were arrested and no charges were filed at the time of this story. It takes time in the American Justice system to fully investiage a crime before chrages can be diceded upon. Any comments regarding what has happened to the grandfather and fater up to this point (without proper background on the full story) are purely specualtion.


2/9/2010 11:47:48 AM From: MrsK Ali - Thursday, April 26, 2007 Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism & Violence When people ask "Why don't Muslims speak out against terrorism", the answer is: "They do." For whatever reason, our Western media isn't doing a very good job at covering it. Below are links to (at minimum) several hundred Muslim political and religious leaders speaking out against and condemning terrorism. Note this will be an ongoing series of posts as more and more prominent Muslims speak out against terrorism and violence. To begin this series, go to this link for a long list of Muslim political and religious leaders who have condemned terrorism, jihad, violence and suicide bombings. http://facts-not-fear.blogspot.com/2007/04/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism.html


2/9/2010 11:48:28 AM From: MrsK www.freemuslims.org/hi-rez-ad.mov (needs Quicktime viewer or view directly from website at www.freemuslims.org)


2/9/2010 11:48:40 AM From: MrsK http://www.freemuslims.org/


2/9/2010 11:48:51 AM From: MrsK http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php


2/9/2010 11:49:04 AM From: MrsK http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/beyond_the_condemnation_of_terrorism/


2/9/2010 11:49:18 AM From: MrsK http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/pr-iscc-pope-sep18-06.htm


2/9/2010 11:49:20 AM From: Rani Life in prison in London, arrested, charged, and convicted under the laws in London. What about in Turkey, have you checked out any of the links I have provided? Aamir Latif, a correspondent for the Islamist website Islam Online who writes frequently on the issue, reported that in 2007 in the Punjab province of Pakistan alone, there were 1,261 honor murders The Jordanian penal code is quite lenient towards honor killers A Turkish study of prisoners found no social stigma attached to honor murderers.


2/9/2010 11:49:28 AM From: MrsK http://www.m-a-t.org/


2/9/2010 11:52:39 AM From: MrsK I ahve to get ready for work now, but each and every link I just posted are some of the thousands of Organizations (Mostly Muslim Ones) denoucing PUBLICLY terrorism and voilence. I will repost something I just posted a few replies up: Thursday, April 26, 2007 Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism & Violence When people ask "Why don't Muslims speak out against terrorism", the answer is: "They do." For whatever reason, our Western media isn't doing a very good job at covering it. Below are links to (at minimum) several hundred Muslim political and religious leaders speaking out against and condemning terrorism. Note this will be an ongoing series of posts as more and more prominent Muslims speak out against terrorism and violence. To begin this series, go to this link for a long list of Muslim political and religious leaders who have condemned terrorism, jihad, violence and suicide bombings. http://facts-not-fear.blogspot.com/2007/04/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism.html ******************************************************************************************* The information is THERE if you go looking for it. Don't wait for your media to FEED it to you. Because it doesn't get very good ratings to know the people we love to hate aren't quie as evil as we make them out to be. Don't be FED. Go in search.


2/9/2010 11:53:53 AM From: LiquidSnake Islam is the shittiest religion devised by man. I love the whole argument that it's the radicals, not the true Muslims. And yet these radicals make up the majority of Muslims. Isn't it Iran that even has a "Death to America" day? (although that got a little side tracked this past year, with the Death to the Dictator bit lol). And don't feed us that shit about "let he who is without sin caste the first stone" bit, MrsK. Like you don't jump at every opportunity to make fun of and bash Christianity. I've seen you downplay and make fun of that religion many times over. So get off your holy roller horse.


2/9/2010 11:58:54 AM From: MrsK LS I don't know what bug crawled up your ass but do a favor and dig it out before talking to me. I don't need your shitty attitude. And BTW - "Islam is the shittiest religion devised by man." Comments like that only reinforce my attitude that sometimes Americans are about the most arrogant single minded people on the planet. That is a truly ignorant statement. Why don't you go and tell that to your "Uncle". I'm sure he'd get a kick out of it.


2/9/2010 12:02:19 PM From: BCAR Islam Stinks


2/9/2010 12:05:11 PM From: LiquidSnake As I've said, I've had my disagreements with him, but we still respect each other. You can take it as a shitty attitude, but I stand by what I said. Your very quick to make jokes on Christianity when it's convenient for you, and when someone attacks your Islam, or other religious beliefs, your also very quick to bring out the "don't point fingers unless your totally innocent yourself" speech. Please, your far from it, yourself, your holiness.


2/9/2010 12:05:18 PM From: Rani I know it is not America, for in America this same grandfather and father would be facing 1st degree murder charges and possibly sentenced to the death penalty. This grandfather and father, in my eyes and in my culture have done more harm to the Muslim religion and Allah than they have done to restore honor to the family. I also believe that they are facing any charges at all because of the outcry against honor killings coming from non Islamic countries to bring an end to honor killings. I believe the day will come when an honor killing will no longer be acceptable in Islamic countries but that day is not today, because, in the Islamic culture, they have not done anything wrong, they have done what they had to do to restore honor to the family. Do I believe every Muslim father would kill his daughter in an honor killing, if faced with that in his life, no, I am sure there are many, many, many more that would not than there has been those who have. In the same breath, I would never trust the fate of my daughter to a Muslim father, not now, perhaps not ever.


2/9/2010 12:06:42 PM From: LiquidSnake And Islam is the shittiest religion out there. Devised by a piece of shit pedophile.


2/9/2010 12:07:53 PM From: Chi I'm so turned off by most religions and the so called religious nowdays it's not even funny.


2/9/2010 12:09:09 PM From: MrsK Well considering you are a man (I guess), how would you and a Muslim man ever raise a daughter together? Oh well. I'm late to get my shoes on. Later.


2/9/2010 12:09:47 PM From: Chi LS - Watch what you say, Muslims are some of the most crazed out there. They will literally kill you over those words on a screen-lol No joke.


2/9/2010 12:10:35 PM From: Rani MK, I am not a man...lol...


2/9/2010 12:11:26 PM From: LiquidSnake Yeah well, they'd only be making a martyr out of me, then, Chi, and proving my point what a deceptive bunch they are.


2/9/2010 12:11:29 PM From: MrsK Ooops! LMAO! Sorry Rani, I thought you were LS! ROFL!


2/9/2010 12:12:04 PM From: BCAR I'm not afraid: The name is BCAR 1369 Shiner Lane, Beaumont Texas


2/9/2010 12:13:21 PM From: Rani I agree with Chi, I am totally turned off by any religion. There is something whacked about all of them.


2/9/2010 12:23:18 PM From: LiquidSnake I like how MrsK questions my manhood because I don't care for Islam. That's rich.


2/9/2010 12:24:27 PM From: Rani And profiling only got a bad name because people started forming opinions based more on the negative behaviors of any group than the positive contributions. If Islams supports honor killings, then it should stand up and defend its doctorines concerning honor killings, if not then they should do everything in their power to abolish them, for the world is watching and forming their opinions.


2/9/2010 12:32:00 PM From: Rani I have always said, if you are a group that has been unjustly profiled, you own the burden to change it. If I believe something that is false about you and what you stand for, then clear it up for me, because there has been evidence that has shown me the falsehood to be true. I do not pull crap out my hat unless someone crapped in my hat, and then I will most likely just discard the hat believing it is full of shit. It is not my fault I am being given the wrong message about Islam and the Muslim religion and I do not own the burden to seek out the truth, Islam owns the burden to bring that truth to me.


2/9/2010 12:43:18 PM From: LiquidSnake Yeah but Rani, remember it's only a small percentage that are like that.... lmao.


2/9/2010 4:18:58 PM From: whogo Kill your slutty daughters. It's diverse!


2/9/2010 4:40:34 PM From: whogo X/2-1=69!


2/9/2010 10:34:09 PM From: MrsK ^You cheated.


2/9/2010 10:39:40 PM From: MrsK You know... I am so lmao right now at the silliness here. I go on saying that you people will continue to be sheep and listen only to what your media feeds you. You disagree, you ask for PROOF, you ask that Muslims stand up and denounce the attrocities! You demand ANSWERS! I provided about 6 or 7 links to Muslim Operated programs that publicly denouce this crap, and an extra link that would guide you another site which provides literally HUNDREDS of more links to MUSLIM organizations that denounce the voilence... And yet... Oddly enough you are still DEMANDING ANSWERS! Where's THE PROOF! It's ONLY the Minorities tongue in cheek! Seriously. Clue in. You've been brainwashed into loving to hate, so you won't even look at the evidence that is sitting staring you down, and putting your lame arguments to shame. This is truly sad. Truly sad. And furthers my opinion that we as a human race are shitbags.


2/9/2010 10:42:01 PM From: MrsK Oh what the hell! Third times a charm! Thursday, April 26, 2007 Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism & Violence When people ask "Why don't Muslims speak out against terrorism", the answer is: "They do." For whatever reason, our Western media isn't doing a very good job at covering it. Below are links to (at minimum) several hundred Muslim political and religious leaders speaking out against and condemning terrorism. Note this will be an ongoing series of posts as more and more prominent Muslims speak out against terrorism and violence. To begin this series, go to this link for a long list of Muslim political and religious leaders who have condemned terrorism, jihad, violence and suicide bombings. http://facts-not-fear.blogspot.com/2007/04/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism.html


2/9/2010 10:42:52 PM From: MrsK www.freemuslims.org/hi-rez-ad.mov (needs Quicktime viewer or view directly from website at www.freemuslims.org)


2/9/2010 10:43:01 PM From: MrsK http://www.freemuslims.org/


2/9/2010 10:43:13 PM From: MrsK http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php


2/9/2010 10:43:23 PM From: MrsK http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/beyond_the_condemnation_of_terrorism/


2/9/2010 10:43:33 PM From: MrsK http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/pr-iscc-pope-sep18-06.htm


2/9/2010 10:43:44 PM From: MrsK http://www.m-a-t.org/


2/9/2010 10:44:09 PM From: MrsK http://www.eni.ch/articles/display.shtml?05-0859


2/9/2010 10:44:21 PM From: MrsK http://www.eni.ch/articles/display.shtml?05-0859


2/9/2010 10:44:31 PM From: MrsK http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm


2/9/2010 10:44:47 PM From: MrsK http://www.jordanembassyus.org/hmka11122005.htm


2/9/2010 10:44:59 PM From: MrsK http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article424455.ece


2/9/2010 10:45:16 PM From: MrsK http://nightlight.typepad.com/nightlight/2005/08/the_fatwa.html


2/9/2010 10:45:47 PM From: MrsK http://nightlight.typepad.com/nightlight/2005/08/the_fatwa.html


2/9/2010 10:46:16 PM From: MrsK http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=islam&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fatwa-online.com%2Fworship%2Fjihaad%2Fjih004%2Findex.htm


2/9/2010 10:50:08 PM From: MrsK http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503549272&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islam/Islamic%20subjects/2004%20subjects/June/Committing%20Suicide%20Is%20Strictly%20Forbidden%20in%20Islam,%20Adil%20Salahi.htm http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com/dox/The_Hijacked_Caravan.pdf http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/ez/isl/0-sbm/The.Hijacked.Caravan.html http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/ez/isl/0-sbm/The.Hijacked.Caravan.html http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.245083220&par=0 http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0060624.htm http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0050910.htm http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0050909.htm http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0050709.htm http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0050708.htm http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0050207_1.htm pant pant pant My fingers are cramping... I just got home from work, and I am tired of the hand feeding. Now an up and feed your damn selves... Infidels.


2/9/2010 10:51:33 PM From: MrsK And BTW - that's not even all of page one.


2/9/2010 11:18:33 PM From: LiquidSnake I'm sorry you think the human race is just full of shit bags. The people I interact with on a daily basis, minus 1 individual, are decent, good people from all different backgrounds. My biggest problem with this story is its not the "terrorists" that are doing these murders, its Joe Mohammed Schmoe. I thought the non-terrorist ones were the good guys?


2/9/2010 11:20:29 PM From: MrsK Could you dance around that bush a little longer?


2/9/2010 11:22:05 PM From: MrsK I'm not even going to BOTHER explaining to you what is on those sites. If you really want to know, if you really want to sound as though you have a clue what you are talking about, if you really CARE to know the truth behind the media fed hatred that lambs often follow into slaughter... You'll do the right thing, and read for yourself. Nighty night.


2/9/2010 11:25:31 PM From: MrsK Infidel...


2/9/2010 11:28:41 PM From: LiquidSnake Gotta love the venom in your replies, followed by the lmao's, ROFL's to play it off.


2/9/2010 11:32:11 PM From: MrsK Awwww! Do you feel like your being attacked because you just can't seem to dislodge that foot from your mouth? PS: Venom like telling me to get off my what was it? Oh yes, Holy Roller high Horse. Yeah that was it! LMAO! ROFL!


2/9/2010 11:33:58 PM From: MrsK Dodge LS! Duck! Dodge! Ok enough playing with the infidel. I really am tired now.


2/9/2010 11:37:23 PM From: LiquidSnake Case in point, like you said earlie


2/9/2010 11:37:35 PM From: LiquidSnake Case in point, like you said earlier.


2/9/2010 11:40:34 PM From: MrsK Yep... It went way over your head.


2/9/2010 11:40:53 PM From: LiquidSnake Yep, good night. I love being an infidel, it beats following a pedophile's religion any day.


2/10/2010 12:01:19 AM From: MrsK Way to go grasping at them straws LS. You know I've heard if you dance around that bush long enough it'll eventually reach out and trip you.


2/10/2010 12:03:09 AM From: MrsK Infidel...


2/10/2010 12:13:53 AM From: LiquidSnake Infidel! Infidel!


2/10/2010 12:15:22 AM From: LiquidSnake Durka Durka jihad Mohammed!


2/10/2010 2:07:17 PM From: BCAR Muslims stink, Try that one LS, she can't fight that one.


2/10/2010 2:09:06 PM From: mercury ...but then again, so do Chaldeans, and they're Christian


2/10/2010 5:33:21 PM From: MrsK Silence! I keel you! Infidels!


2/11/2010 1:11:19 PM From: RaE I think mrsk is a bigot.


2/11/2010 1:49:21 PM From: LiquidSnake I agree.


2/15/2010 1:32:20 PM From: BCAR Update: Since this was first posted 217 people have been killed in the name of Islam. 0 people have been killed on orders from the Pope.


2/15/2010 2:39:03 PM From: Ali ^^^ Oooooooh, good point.


2/15/2010 2:49:59 PM From: MrsK I thought the last point you were trying to make was that Muslims don't speak out for the sake of stopping the violence? I've proven that to be pure falacy, yet no one has acknowledged the facts provided. I won't debate with people who can't accept factual evidence to clarify their decisive misguidance. You've made the decision to make these people you enemy regardless of facts that prove you are wrong. I have nothing further to debate. I can't make you take your blinders off. In closing, the Western Media knows that sheep are easy. They know that American's love to hate the Islamic people and they know what gives them ratings. Western media knows the power it wields into feeding the animosity. If you want to be a sheep I can't stop you. And I've lost interest in trying to prove my point. I am obviously in the minority, and I can live with it quite happily.


2/15/2010 2:57:38 PM From: whogo The only sheep are the people too stupid to recognize most of the Muslim world is in chaos due to Islam.


2/15/2010 3:01:23 PM From: MrsK ^That made absolutely no sense at all whatsoever. Do you know the connotation between the words Islam and Muslim?


2/15/2010 3:03:00 PM From: whogo Sheep are the people who only support equal rights for non-Muslim women.


2/15/2010 3:04:17 PM From: MrsK Weel, I guess that answers my question. Washing my hands and walking away.


2/15/2010 3:04:41 PM From: whogo Better than you do, obviously.


2/15/2010 3:09:37 PM From: MrsK Uh.... No. :An adherent of Islam is a Muslim, meaning "one who submits (to God)".[2][3] The word Muslim is the active participle of the same verb of which IslÄ�m is the infinitive.


2/15/2010 4:05:19 PM From: LiquidSnake Whogo, its pointless to argue with her. You'll make more progress with a wall. Were just infidels in her mind. Anything you say short of praise Allah will come off as ignorant to her. Remember, all of us are wrong, only she is right. Islam stinks.


2/15/2010 4:39:13 PM From: MrsK You know LS I've noticed something rather disturbing about you. You are a typical bandwagoneer with very little of your own convictions to rely on. You only make snide snotty remarks when people will back you up because your POV happens to be the one influenced upon you by the main stream. In lamens terms; if you're friends jumped off a bridge you'd probably join them because it seemed cool at the time.


2/15/2010 4:43:18 PM From: LiquidSnake And your that person that thinks their cool because they go against the tide with everything, whether it makes sense or not. What else do you got?


2/15/2010 4:48:55 PM From: MrsK Nah, I don't think I'm cool at all. You got the wrong peg there darlin'. My morals and standards are not based on a popularity contest. Popularity means very little to me.


2/15/2010 4:52:11 PM From: LiquidSnake That would be something you'd say. It'd hurt your street cred if you said anything else. I'm not your "darlin'", either.


2/15/2010 5:01:06 PM From: MrsK Well I can think of lot worse things to call you LS but I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings. Darlin'. PS: Have no fear; you certainly ain't MY darlin'.


2/15/2010 5:02:10 PM From: LiquidSnake Look, I don't care for Islam, and I totally disagree with your viewpoint. Instead of continuing to be an asshole with you about it, I'm just gonna drop it. Besides, I'm in too good a mood anyways, I got women talking to me lol.


2/16/2010 6:02:44 AM From: BCAR Islam drags every nation it predominates back into the stone age. Stone age people being easier to manipulate. Oh since yesterday 7 more people killed in the name of Allah. Pope Hits - Still Zero


2/16/2010 6:21:02 AM From: MrsK Nice skirt BCAR. It suits you.


2/16/2010 8:37:11 AM From: RaE How is it that she still doesn't understand. How many muslims are condemning murders in the name of allah, versus the number that are being silent or praising the murderers. That's the point. When it is intolerable in islam (as it is in Christianity) to commit a murder (honor killing, murder of an infidel because he/she is an infidel, etc. etc.) they will be much less likely. And that is only possible when all of islam condemns what the "few" "fringe" "extremists" are doing and them are removed, by their own, for these crimes. Maybe that clarifies it a little bit. Or, maybe I'm wasting my time, because you really dont care why people hate them.


2/16/2010 10:13:18 AM From: LiquidSnake RaE, just.... lol


2/16/2010 10:19:56 AM From: MrsK RaE, SHE understands that your statment from start to finish is WRONG. And if anyone had bothered to look at the links and stories I posted a week ago, you would know that. Put your sleeping mask back on and go on with your life.


2/16/2010 10:32:11 AM From: RaE It would have been much easier just to say that I was wasting my time. And my statement was not wrong. Your statements have been wrong.


2/16/2010 10:38:31 AM From: MrsK Really? And how many of the 100+ leaders from the websites provided as requested (and then ignored) can list off the top of your head as individuals in places of power and authority who speak out publicly against violence and terrorism in Islam? Under normal circumstances I might be willing to indulge you and start listing them off myself. But seeing as how I am in an extremely bitchy mood right now, I say the hell with you go look it up yourself. I only posted the links and stories three different times.


2/16/2010 10:41:00 AM From: BCAR News Flash: As of noon today all members of Al Quaida are still Muslims.


2/16/2010 10:41:33 AM From: BCAR As of Noon today all members of Hamas are still Muslim.


2/16/2010 10:42:04 AM From: BCAR In addition, all members of the Taliban are still Muslims.


2/16/2010 10:43:08 AM From: BCAR Since 6 A.M. this morning, Islamic extremists have killed 3 people. The Irish Republican army - 0


2/16/2010 10:43:48 AM From: BCAR Total number of people killed by the Westboro baptist Church - 0


2/16/2010 10:44:35 AM From: LiquidSnake Islam sucks.


2/16/2010 10:48:49 AM From: MrsK And how many people have Americans murdered in the last 24 hours BCAR? you forgot to add that to yoru list? How many wives in the U.S. have been beaten? How many children kidnapped? Murdered? How many barbaric Americans have killed today? You know, you remind me of a little child who puts his fingers in his ears and screams so he doesn't have to hear the truth. How immature.


2/16/2010 10:49:29 AM From: MrsK But then I guess one sided stories are your thing these days.


2/16/2010 10:56:16 AM From: RaE your links prove that SOME muslims are speaking out... for every muslim that is speaking out, there are 100,000 that are sitting there with their thumbs in their asses, or that are praising the terrorists/"honor" killers. There needs to be more condemnation and more punishment for the evil scum that are committing these atrocious acts. I think she ignored my post before that...


2/16/2010 11:00:09 AM From: MrsK "your links prove that SOME muslims are speaking out... for every muslim that is speaking out, there are 100,000 that are sitting there with their thumbs in their asses" I would like you to please verify this number you have scientifically exacted with some evidence please. Sources. Otherwise it is meaningless dribble that you are spewing forth to further your empty argument.


2/16/2010 11:03:10 AM From: MrsK Thursday, April 26, 2007 Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism & Violence When people ask "Why don't Muslims speak out against terrorism", the answer is: "They do." For whatever reason, our Western media isn't doing a very good job at covering it. Below are links to (at minimum) several hundred Muslim political and religious leaders speaking out against and condemning terrorism. Note this will be an ongoing series of posts as more and more prominent Muslims speak out against terrorism and violence. To begin this series, go to this link for a long list of Muslim political and religious leaders who have condemned terrorism, jihad, violence and suicide bombings. http://facts-not-fear.blogspot.com/2007/04/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism.html


2/16/2010 11:05:15 AM From: MrsK I've put that argument to shame already RaE. But no one seems to care. So why should I?


2/16/2010 11:19:15 AM From: BCAR Apples and oranges MK. Maybe we could talk about how many blacks vs. whites commited crimes in the last 24 hours? Want to go there? Muslim extremists commit crimes in the name of Islam. That is the point. Take away Muslim extremist murders and religion motivated murder goes to almost zero at once. That is the point.


2/16/2010 11:21:47 AM From: MrsK I am neither black nor white, so that has nothing to do with me. If you did go there however it only reflects on you and not those you are trying so desperately to persecute.


2/16/2010 11:23:09 AM From: BCAR Muslim extremists commit crimes in the name of Islam. That is the point. Take away Muslim extremist murders and religion motivated murder goes to almost zero at once. That is the point.


2/16/2010 11:24:11 AM From: BCAR Number of people killed in the name of Buddha yesterday - Zero


2/16/2010 11:24:45 AM From: BCAR Number of Hindu suicide bombers last month. Zero


2/16/2010 11:25:37 AM From: BCAR Number of Methodist 9-11 Hijackers - Zero


2/16/2010 11:25:48 AM From: MrsK And no BCAR that is not the point. The point is that everytime you all chose to bring up this lovely discussion it immediately turns into a bash fest, and pack of lies throwing around comments that Muslims don't speak out against the voilence, and how they should all be obliterated and so on and so forth. Everytime I read that rubbish I want to vomit. You want to use a small percentage of nutjobs to expose some insane conception you have about a relion you actually know very little about. But when someone brings it up from the Christian ange it suddenly becomes a matter of numbers. A LIFE is a LIFE is a LIFE. It shoudn't matter the reason it was taken. Christians kill on a regular basis int he United States. Whether it be legal murder by way of punishment, or patricide, homicide, etc. It happens everywhere, but the world media doesn't have a magnifying glass on you right now.


2/16/2010 11:51:27 AM From: BCAR WHY is an extremely valid reason. If the WHY is because of Islam it makes all the difference.


2/16/2010 11:53:27 AM From: BCAR "A LIFE is a LIFE is a LIFE. It shoudn't matter the reason it was taken." Really? So I take it you're completely against hate crime laws now.


2/16/2010 12:01:13 PM From: Ali People are killed by crazy people every day. Yes! Here in America and around the world. There are bad apples out there for sure. But the numbers ARE important here. This is a situation where people are killing in the name of religion! It's not just one or two killers acting out their own personal vendettas...these are daily killing sprees designed to eliminate large quantities of people! These terrorist groups are organized, deadly, and doing it all in the name of their god. When you have such a huge number of religious zealots killing scores of people in the name of their religion, what they are doing constitutes open warfare against humanity. It has to be recognized as a bad thing...and it has to be stopped!


2/16/2010 12:02:02 PM From: Ali 2/16/2010 11:537 AM From: BCAR "A LIFE is a LIFE is a LIFE. It shoudn't matter the reason it was taken." Really? So I take it you're completely against hate crime laws now. ............ Another very good point.


2/16/2010 12:12:14 PM From: MrsK First of all I am not going to allow you to turn this into an attack against my standing on domestic matters, because according to YOU it is apples and oranges right? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Pick your argument and stick with it. Unless you can reasonably address the issue of the facts I set on the tablef or you a week or so ago I am not moving onto any other topic. "Of course some idiot is going to come in and talk about some Christian atrocity from the middle ages to justify this." False Statement "Islam is a religion that represes women and encourages violence against "nonbelievers"." False Statement "... backwards religion that condones the murder of inocents." False Statement I'm still waiting for you to say something that isn't pure Western Media fed bullshit. Secodnly, I've had a really fukt up day. I am not going into this anymore. I am simply closing the laptop and going to lie down and drown my woes in sleep. Good day. Infidel.


2/16/2010 12:47:14 PM From: BCAR A typical flip flop consisting of contradicting yourself. Every statement I made has, is and continues to be verified on a daily basis. If these dipshits were planning the destruction of Western civilization for pure political or nationalist reasons it would be one thing. But they are doing it in the name of Islam not another religion or for a leader, but for a religion, Islam. And numbers do matter and reasons do matter and the Koran they quote does matter and the context of time matters. Crime rates in America or elsewhere Don't matter. If someone kills another person in the name of Jesus or the Christian God yes it would matter. But the fact of the matter is that it isn't happening on anywhere near the scale of Islamic terror. And those who have were roundly condemned and punished. So your argument does not work in this case. And the Western media, while admittedly sensationalized did not invent any of this.


2/16/2010 12:48:15 PM From: BCAR My primary point: Islam Stinks


2/16/2010 1:13:33 PM From: RaE I agree with BCAR


2/16/2010 1:13:47 PM From: Chi As for me: Islam along with most, if not all religions = stink. But Islam is def. up there in rank.


2/16/2010 1:51:34 PM From: LiquidSnake Wooo, welcome brother BCAR! You've joined the infidel club with me lol.


2/16/2010 1:53:41 PM From: Ali I declare that all Infidels be in charge of snacks and booze for the site every Wednesday!!!!!


2/16/2010 1:54:46 PM From: BCAR Chi has obviously never attended Casino night at Saint Thomas' Knights of Columbus Hall. It would change your whole outlook on organized religion.


2/16/2010 2:09:08 PM From: Chi Obviously. Maybe if you invited me. But I guess I'll never know...


2/16/2010 3:51:16 PM From: MrsK Ali - if infidels are not in charge of the snacks we won't be allowed beer or pork rhinds!


2/16/2010 4:22:33 PM From: whogo Today a woman in the Sudan was stoned for listening to Britney Spears. Can't say I disagree with that one.


2/16/2010 4:31:43 PM From: MrsK WHOGO!!!!! OMG!


2/16/2010 4:31:46 PM From: Ali ^^^ Did you see the memo? Tomorrow is Wednesday. Bring beer.


2/16/2010 4:32:14 PM From: Ali Oops, last comment meant for hugo!