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Religious DiscussionAuthor:eddo Viewed:  274  
Praying passenger removed from plane at NY airport   
 Praying passenger removed from plane at NY airport

Fri Apr 18, 2:36 AM ET

NEW YORK - A passenger who left his seat to pray in the back of a plane before it took off, ignoring flight attendants' orders to return, was removed by an airport security guard, a witness and the airline said.

The Orthodox Jewish man, who wore a full beard, a black hat and a long black coat, stood near the lavatories and began saying his prayers while the United Airlines jet was being boarded at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Wednesday night, said Ori Brafman, a fellow passenger who spoke about the incident by phone from San Francisco, where he lives.

When flight attendants urged the man, who was carrying a religious book, to take his seat, he ignored them, Brafman said. Two friends, who were seated, tried to tell the attendants that the man couldn't stop until after he'd finished his prayers in about 2 minutes, he said.

When the man finally stopped praying, he explained that he couldn't interrupt his religious ritual and wasn't trying to be rude. But the attendants summoned a guard to remove him, said Brafman, a writer who had been visiting New York to talk to publishers.

The plane, Flight 9 to San Francisco, took off without the man. It landed at its destination as scheduled, Brafman said.

Robin Urbanski, a spokeswoman for United Airlines, a subsidiary of UAL Corp. with headquarters in Chicago, confirmed the man was taken off the plane and put on another flight Thursday morning.

Urbanski said flights cannot depart if all passengers are not in their seats, which risks a delay, and it is important that passengers listen to the instructions of the flight crew.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, and the Transportation Security Administration, which handles airport security, said Thursday they weren't involved in the incident.



What are your thoughts on this?

Replies
4/19/2008 10:36:20 PM   From:  DarkCrow   "Urbanski said flights cannot depart if all passengers are not in their seats, which risks a delay, and it is important that passengers listen to the instructions of the flight crew." That right there sums it up. Religious or not, if you're not listening and following instructions, don't be surprised when your ass is booted off the plane!
4/20/2008 2:44:22 AM   From:  Feckless Wench   You want to travel by plane, you follow THEIR rules. Why should others be inconvenienced by another's religious beliefs.
4/20/2008 5:14:49 AM   From:  enki   Had it been an Arab praying to god he wouldnt have been allowed to finish. With Israels history of false flag operations I am surprised they allowed this man to finish. That was one hell of a gamble. 
4/20/2008 6:23:14 AM   From:  hugo   If he had been a Christian the ACLU would be sueing him. 
4/20/2008 6:40:19 AM   From:  Rani   I think the time to pray is before you get into all the hubbub activity of loading and taking off on a plane, especially if in a manner disrupts things, causes delays, and could be deemed suspicious behavior.
4/20/2008 6:41:40 AM   From:  Rani   ohterwise no one has any business bothering you during a prayer.
4/20/2008 8:08:23 AM   From:  LiquidSnake   The thing I don't understand is why did the guy decide right then and there that he had to pray? If he knew anything about planes, ever flew once in his life, he would know that airlines are extremely anal about people complying during initial take-off, and especially suspicious about people practicing thier religious beliefs in the wake of 9-11. I don't see why the guy couldn't have waited a half hour till they were in the air and the seat belt sign was off.
4/20/2008 1:35:49 PM   From:  timesjoke   I am very supportive of the right to religious freedoms but there is a time and place for everything. He was wrong for conducting an obtrusive prayer in that way, so removing him was the right thing to do.
4/21/2008 3:22:52 AM   From:  PapaBryant   Hassidic Jews say certain particular prayers at certain times of the day. The airlines are well aware of this, and its not the first time its happened. To throw him off when they were aware of members of this religion holding ritual prayer speaks of something more sinister. He should NOT have be thrown off the plane. 
4/21/2008 7:44:17 AM   From:  emkay64   Pick another time to pray or don't schudule a flight during those times. What a dumbass! PB I love you but seriously, then we have to wait for everyones prayer sessions to end.
4/21/2008 7:45:17 AM   From:  emkay64   I agree that 2 minutes is no big deal, but it sets the precedent for EVERY religion if it is allowed once.
4/21/2008 9:13:07 AM   From:  RaE   if he had been a muslim he would not have been bothered and the ACLU would be up in arms and sueing the airline for removing him from the flight.
4/21/2008 9:13:30 AM   From:  RaE   that should be 'or the' not 'and the'***
4/21/2008 9:22:05 AM   From:  eddo   I have no issue with the airlines removing this man from their flight. Not a bit. you do what the airline attendants tell you. Period.
4/21/2008 10:13:08 AM   From:  Rani   note to self, do not do business with Jewish people.
4/21/2008 10:46:35 AM   From:  eddo   wow Rani, racist much?
4/21/2008 1:51:53 PM   From:  PapaBryant   emkay, they don't have a choice in what time to pray; that choice was God's. Besides, its not as if the airlines aren't aware of this; THEY KNEW these Jews did this, and have for 50 YEARS! They also know about Muslims and their time to pray (which is actually a little more flexible if I remember correctly). They simply chose to enforce this on someone who was different than the other passengers. The airline was in the wrong here. 
4/21/2008 3:17:28 PM   From:  Rani   no Eddo, just simply taking note that there are times when a Jewish person has to stop what they are doing to pray 2 minutes could be a long time, can make a huge difference in how things turn out. For example, Say a heart surgeon is Jewish, in the middle of a surgery, Whoops time to pray, not good, not good at all. Just popping holes in Papa's the airline should make concessions for the man and not removed him from the plane. Echoing Emkay's statement, Pick another time to pray or don't schedule a flight during those times. He has a choice in his religion and he has a choice in when he sets up a flight. During his prayer time was inappropriate timing. He needs to make accomodations for his religion, not everyone else in the world.
4/21/2008 3:19:45 PM   From:  Rani   Don't tell me the man was not aware his prayer would disrupts things, causes delays, and could be deemed suspicious behavior. That shoe fits both ways.
4/21/2008 3:57:56 PM   From:  MrsK   Oye vey...
4/21/2008 10:52:49 PM   From:  Moob   2 minutes.. really.. as if 2 minutes would delay the flight. I bet people were still finding their own seats when he was removed. and it's only suspicious because, to many uneducated people, he looks like an arab... and we all know if you look arab and pray in any language other then english you must be muslim.. which means, of course, you want to kill yourself in order to kill americans.
4/21/2008 10:57:38 PM   From:  Moob   Rani... I noticed just now that you like to argue your points with extremes that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. It points to how unintelligent you seem to believe everyone is compared to you. Jewish heart surgeons don't schedule transplants during prayer session. But, they also have a choice. Obviously this guy on the plane had somewhere he needed to be. possibly not by choice. 2 freakin minutes of prayer should not be enough to get someone kicked from the flight. the attendant was being a douchebag. end of story.
4/21/2008 11:15:11 PM   From:  Rani   No way Moob, my pointing out the exteme has nothing to do with showing I am more intelligent than anyone else. My extreme example was to show that the person who owns the religion is responsible for his religion not everyone else. You act like he didn't have a choice, he had to be on that flight at that exact moment, I don't buy that, he could have taken an earlier flight, if he had to be somewhere by a certian time and this flight interfered with his prayer time. Like DC said, "Religious or not, if you're not listening and following instructions, don't be surprised when your ass is booted off the plane!"
4/21/2008 11:22:48 PM   From:  Rani   According to this article on the same topic....http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/09/05/qc-hasidicprayeronplane.html....The airplane was heading toward the runway at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport when eyewitnesses said the Orthodox man began to pray. It even states a Hasidic Rabbi stated that had the man been praying in his seat and not taking over the entire plane, there should not have been a problem, but the guy was taking over the entire plane, thus there was a problem.
4/21/2008 11:26:23 PM   From:  Rani   which is basically the same thing I said, if he wasn't taking over the plane, no problem, no one should have bothered him while he was praying, but that didn't happen, he took over the plane.
4/21/2008 11:29:59 PM   From:  Rani   And Papa' arguement a jewish person doesn't have a choice what times they pray, all well and good, they know this, they know in advance when they are called to prayer, they need to schedule life around that, not have the rest of the world schedule their lives around their prayer time.
4/22/2008 1:25:54 AM   From:  hugo   "Pick another time to pray or don't schedule a flight during those times. What a dumbass!" Amen. 
4/22/2008 7:02:03 AM   From:  emkay64   Couldn't he pray in his seat? Are calisthenics part of the prayer ritual? Do you have to be kneeling or your worship is null and void? Just wondering...
4/22/2008 10:14:34 AM   From:  Rani   according to the Hasidic Rabbi, yes he could have prayed in his seat.

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